Sid: My guest is so red hot for the Messiah, Perry Stone, that he has invested and it was an investment and it was for you; 80,000 hours of studying the Word of God. He totally demystifies the book of Revelation. For the first time in your life you will be excited about it because you’re going to understand it. You’re going to understand the symbolism; you’re going to understand end time events. And as a matter of fact Perry Stone there’s something that just seems to be so confusing to most Christians. And it’s got to do with the rapture; is it pre-trib, mid-trib; is it pre-wrath; there’s so many of these different views that are floating around. Many people say this whole pre-trib rapture was developed by some woman in the 1800’s. Let’s start out with basics; define what the rapture is. What does the word even mean?
Perry: Well one of the complaints that either you or I for example say “Well, it’s nowhere in the New Testament so you’re using a word that not in the Bible.” First of all we use theological words in English, trinity is not in the Bible; millennial reign is not in the Bible; 2nd coming is not in the Bible. They are terms that are not in the Bible that we use to identify certain scriptures and what they refer to; that’s point 1. Rapture comes from the Latin comes from the Latin translation of the Bible by St. Jerome. And it comes out of 1st Thessalonians 4. “For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout; the voice of the archangel and the trump of God; and the dead in Christ shall rise first. We which are alive and remain shall be (and here’s the phrase) caught up.” And in the Greek it’s harpazo which means to snatch up suddenly by force to cease out of dangers way. But when translating from Greek to Latin we came up with… it comes up with the English word translated from Latin rapture. To be caught up with joy; to be caught up ecstasy to be generally to be caught up. So he used that word. Now we use the English word. Now the Bible talks about the gathering together unto Him. It talks about the general assembly of the firstborn in heaven. I mean if people wanted to call the catching up and the gather together of the general assembly; or the gathering together; the catching up. Those terms are fine but we speak… we take one word that people generally know what you’re talking about when you say that word. The concept of it is in the Bible. It is when the dead in Christ are raised from mortal to immortality and the living saints are changed in a moment in a twinkling of an eye; the sound of the last trump. And together we are with the Lord not only in the air but we meet with Him in heaven. Because Jesus said in John 14 “If I go I will come again and receive you unto myself.” So He predicted this in His own ministry. So the idea about when the doctrine originated now this…
Sid: Now I’ve heard the 1800’s is that true?
Perry: No, in fact this idea where the people say “The catching away teaching is not found in any early fathers and it started in the 1800’s. In the Greek Orthodox Church; or the Orthodox Church a man named Ephraim the Syrian in the 5th century who was an early father in that branch of the church. And in “Cave of the Treasures” and in “Treaties of the Antichrist” he specially talks about the Lord coming before the tribulation. Because the Protestant Church came out of Roman Catholicism. A lot of the documents that we use are the early fathers from the Roman side. Which would be Origin, Portentous and these particular fathers, however, from the Greek side the Greek churches have the documents for years; and I’ve talked to guys that are 10 years scholars in the Orthodox Branch and they say “We have had a teaching in among the fathers of a return and a return before the tribulation.” So that’s a whole other issue there. But the point is “Where is it in the Bible?” Okay now let me have people follow me here very carefully. First of all the pattern of the rapture is Exodus 19 because everything revealed in the New Testament has a root somewhere in the Torah, the 5 books of Moses. Exodus 19 is Moses going on Mt. Sinai (notice the place) And it says “That there was lightning, thunder, smoke, voice of the trumpet, the “tikiah hagadolah” voice of the trumpet waxing louder and longer. Then it says and the Lord came down and Moses went up. So the pattern of the catching away and the Lord descending from heaven and the saints going up is Exodus 19. Now having said that come to the New Testament. The apostle Paul talks about after his conversion how he went into Arabia where he spent time receiving the revelation of Jesus Christ. He then tells you in chapter 3 Mt. Sinai is in Arabia. Now heres what happened. After Paul conversion he was going to be a preacher to the gentiles after he goes to Mt. Sinai in Arabia where Moses got the commandments and he received 7 revelations from Jesus Christ that nobody else had received. As a matter of fact in the New Testament… and we bring this out in the “Apocalypse Code” teachings that there were 7 revelations that Paul received. The revelation of Israel’s blindness in Revelation 11. The grafting in of the Gentiles. The Revelation of the… in the church. You know all these different revelations he got that alone and wrote about them in his letters. Now here’s what’s interesting; when Paul returned back to write his first letter according to scholars the 14 letters that Paul wrote if we assume that he wrote the book of Hebrews. And I believe he did, so these 14 epistles that Paul wrote of 14 letters the very first one just happens to be the 1st Thessalonica, Greece that was 1st Thessalonians. In our Bible in Bible in 1st Thessalonians is divided into 5 chapters. In each chapter he mentions the return of the Lord but in chapter 4 he gives a church a revelation that never been known to this level before. About the Lord descending from heaven and the saints being caught up to meet the Lord in the air. Now here’s a question Sid you’re going to love this. Why did the Lord wait until the Apostle Paul was called as a preacher to Gentiles to reveal the revelation of the catching away of the Church? And the answer is and I love this. In Acts 2 all the way to Acts right up to chapter 10 the Church was all Jewish because Gentiles had not yet been brought into the covenant. In Acts 10 the first Gentiles are brought into the covenant. So God waits until the church is both Jew and Gentile; you talked about the One New Man there He waits. And then in chapter 9 you have the conversion; you have chapter 9 the conversion of Saul of Tarsus the preacher to the Gentiles the Jewish Rabbi that was going to go to Mount Sinai to get the revelation of this rapture. And then after the Gentiles are grafted into the covenant in chapter 10 you suddenly see Paul preaching and he starts preaching to Jews and Gentiles about the Messiah revealing these revelations in these letters. So the first letter Paul wrote he reveals the catching away of the saints because he’d been on Mt. Sinai where the Lord had come down and Moses went up and received the law and now he’s receiving the revelation of the covenant and the message of the covenant. This is all in the book of Galatians in the same place where Moses received the Torah and revelation of the things of God. And so the rapture teaching, or the catching away teaching, was the very first thing that God taught the church and God waited. See Israel knew that there was coming a Messianic kingdom; they knew the King was going to come back to the earth. Zechariah said “His feet would come to the Mount of Olives. He would stand there and the Mount would split and the King would rule from Jerusalem.” The Jews already knew the Messiah was going to come back to rule on the earth. That was established throughout the Old Covenant, but what nobody realized was that there was going to be another return of which believers who believe in Christ would be resurrected; the dead in Christ and the saints of God would be changed to meet the Lord in the air. And then we would return after the judgment; the bemah; the marriage supper of the Lamb all of that takes place in heaven. And then we return with the King to the earth to fulfill the scriptures which were given to ancient Israel about their King Messiah. So Paul’s revelation actually came in the same place where Moses had received the Torah which is on Mount Sinai in Arabia. To me that just when I dug this out; Grant Jeffrey you knew Grant.
Sid: Of course.
Perry: He was a prophecy writer. Grant told me he said “Perry I’ve studies things all my life and never put that together till you taught it.”
Sid: You’ve put so many things together in your teaching on Revelation. But the big debate with many of my friends is not whether they’ll be a rapture. I mean that’s a no brainer; the big debate is it going to be before the tribulation; in the middle of the tribulation; just before the wrath. And then there’s dozens of other views. With your 80,000 hours of study what’s your conclusion?
Perry: Let’s just take one little nugget here and the early father’s agree on this. That the first 42 months of the tribulation 2 witnesses come. Some say Elijah and Moses; some say Elijah and Enoch. I’ll stick with Elijah and Enoch, but I don’t argue it. Elijah is definitely one of them based on Malachi 4:5. He will return the first 42 months as the 2 witness mentioned in Revelation 11. Now follow me carefully Revelation 11, 12 and 13 is the middle of the 7 year tribulation period. But in the middle of the 7 year tribulation period these 2 witnesses are killed. Now Sid; think for a moment you do not see the church in the book of Revelation after chapter 3. The word church, Ecclesia, is not mentioned anywhere from that point on. Now interesting enough in chapter 4 verse 1 there’s a transition. John hears a voice saying “Come up hither.” Hears a voice of a trumpet and immediately he’s in the Spirit at the throne room and there’s these elders and beasts are worshiping God. And then a multitude is crying out “You have redeemed us out of every nation.” That’s the church they have been caught up. But when you look at this how the book of Revelation is set up you discover that the church… Christ told the believers pray that you be accounted worthy to escape all of these things and to stand before the Son of Man. Now would we pray worthy to escape; escape what? And the answer is in beginning in chapter 6 of Revelation you see the tribulation judgments being poured out. Now let me go back to these 2 witnesses for a moment because it’s real interesting. If the church is still on earth the first 42 months of tribulation what is the necessity of 2 witnesses because they are the only ones declaring the gospel. They’re the only ones on earth preaching the gospel these 2 men. Now if the church is still here we should be preaching because we’re supposed to preach and then the end come according to Matthew 24:14. The second thing is when the 2 witnesses are killed and raised back up to God in heaven then the last 42 months of tribulation begins. And it says an angel comes down from heaven preaching the everlasting gospel and warning people not to take the mark; an angel. So where’s the church? How come the church is not warning people?
Sid: Whoops I’ll give everyone a warning we’re out of time right now.
Tags: its supernatural, Sid Roth